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Post by Fan2 on Feb 9, 2015 16:07:03 GMT -5
The question is, what big tournaments has Zahora wrestled in. You can see the Forge schedule and I doubt you will ever see one of the wrestlers 40-1 at this point in the season. Records mean nothing if you only wrestle in VA the entire wrestling season. It should be about quality not quantity when it comes to judging who deserves to be considered in these ranking. Agree CF has a tough schedule but my question was 'Who has he beaten from the overall or the up and coming list?' I agree he's wrestled some tough kids tough (and lost). My fault as I didn't mean to just toot the horn for Zahora as I believe there are a couple other wrestlers just as deserving, (Roche, Campbell to name a couple). **** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
Unless my records are wrong, I have Smith beating: Roche, Levine, Evans
Thank you, Admin
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Post by wrastlin fan on Feb 9, 2015 16:27:24 GMT -5
I concur Wrestling Fan. Records are nice, but quality wins are what matters. We will find out soon enough.
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It's all about the wins
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Post by It's all about the wins on Feb 9, 2015 16:35:30 GMT -5
I concur Wrestling Fan. Records are nice, but quality wins are what matters. We will find out soon enough. [br You and Weestling Fan are making my argument. Quality wins not numerous close defeats. And we won't find out soon enough as they're all different A classes.
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Post by Wrestling Fan on Feb 9, 2015 18:21:07 GMT -5
Again who has Zohara beat is the question at hand. Give the ranking official some ammo to justify your stance.
**** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
That is Zohara's biggest challenge, not enough victories over ranked opponents. Good wrestler and may very well prove me wrong. In fact, I hope he does.
Thank you, Admin
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Post by nwwrestler07 on Feb 9, 2015 21:15:11 GMT -5
132 Analysis;
Ramey should be higher. He would beat everyone in the weight besides Megonigal. Eastern View's schedule did not allow for him to run into any decent 132's to beat. I guess we are forgetting he beat a kid who is now a D1 starter last year in the state finals.. and he is better this year than he was last year.
Wilmer beat Yorkdale 7-4 at Battlefield duals. Concerning Zahora, if you were there for his match with Obermeyer, you would not consider it "a win". (On his back, match stopped). However, you all keep asking, who has he beat? Let me ask this; who have Rockman and Yorkdale beaten besides each other in order to be ranked ahead of Ramey?
**** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
Can we settle on it just being a tough class? It is a tough one to call. I had Ramey ranked 2nd all year and he is a returning champ. Last year he lost to Gordon and Raines. This year he had a 5 point win over Obermeyer. Am I missing any other wins this year over anyone on the list? It would be nice if Eastern View would do more to promote him on Track.
In short, it is not that Ramey did anything to lose his place, but I cannot ignore the other 132's beating other ranked kids.
I have Yorkdale beating: Lough, Kurtzke, Roche, Wyland, Zahora, Vu, Rockman I have Rockman beating: Flora, Smith x2, Yorkdale, Vu I have Harvich beating: Wyland, Murphy, Wilmer, Curling, Amendolare I have Wyland beating: Levine, Flora x2, Rockman, Kurtzke
Thank you, Admin
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Predict who comes out on top
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Post by Predict who comes out on top on Feb 10, 2015 0:30:45 GMT -5
6A Killian Cardinale 10 Patriot - 113 Victor Echeverria 11 Centerville - 120 Marc Garofalo 10 Colonial Forge -126 Joshua Nail 11 Colonial Forge 6 - 132 Tyler Megonigal 11 James Madison 6 - 138 Jeff Stone 12 Colonial Forge 6 - 145 Corey Leonard 12 Thomas Dale 6 - 152 Mason Woodall forge 6 - 160 Seldon Wright 12 Oscar Smith 6 - 170 Anthony Carter 12 Colonial Forge 6 - 182 Codie Bowers 12 CD Hylton 6 - 195 Tyler Love 12 Centreville 6 - 220 Patrick Grayson 12 Colonial Forge 6 - 285 Austin Knies 12 Westfield 6 5A 106 Bryce Sweeney Potomac - 113 Timmy Brown 12 Broad Run 5 - 120 McKinnon Bowen 12 Stone Bridge 5 - 126 Josue Beltran, Jr. 12 Mountain View 5 - 132 Adam Wilmer 12 Matoaca 5 - 138 Bill Adusei 11 Mount Vernon 5 - 145 Trevor Watkins 11 Mountain View 5 - 152 Neal Richards 12 Matoaca 5 - 160 Josh Deutel 12 Brooke Point 5 - 170 Shane Ice 12 Brooke Point 5 - 182 Brian Garlington 12 Brooke Point - 195 Charles Belvin 12 Atlee 5 - 220 Jalen Booke 12 Great Bridge 5 - 285 Anthony Helm 11 Matoaca 5
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Post by Parsons- on Feb 10, 2015 16:21:56 GMT -5
Parsons-Gabe, Yorkdale also beat Rockman by decision last year in a conference dual 16-4. They are closely matched no doubt. On the injury FFT, Rockman was losing 7-1 at the time of the match was stopped and had just been saved by the horn from getting pinned at the end of the 1st. I understand your thought about 6 min but, part of being a ranked wrestler is toughness and durability, if that didn't count, what would stop kids from throwing up the twirling finger whenever they were losing? Got to finish the match. Either way it should be a good 6A North Region tournament. NOVA guest, sorry to have struck a nerve with you? I have to disagree with your points. If a kid is a "ranked wrestler", I think by default he is "tough and durable" as he would have had to beat tough/durable wrestlers in order to be ranked? Rockman FFT'd a "conference title" not a match--big difference. A kid of his caliber doesn't FFT a title because he's losing!!. I streamed Robinson v. Forest Park dual. Rockman was down 9-0 by FP kid who had a couple ballistic throws against him. Rockman fought back and won the match--toughness & durability... I too, saw the conf finals match Friday between the two boys, it was 5-1 when Rockman FFT'd (not 7-1). He appeared injured after initial take down, tried to get off bottom, difficulty posting w/ his arm. I am not in agreement w/ referee's decision on back points either during that match. York had the take down but Rockman had him elevated while the ref is counting backs? There was no control. None the less, 5-1. Your comment "almost pinned/saved by the horn" if I had a nickel for every time I've heard that comment... Reviewed trackwrestling, I didn't see the 16-4 conference loss you were talking about but take your word. I did see, Rockman over Yorkdale, 2x decisions, at conference and regional championships last season and 1x Fall two weeks before the current conf finals... 3x losses track record favors Rockman... I think both boys are tough, Yorkdale a state champ!.. you don't have to denigrate one to elevate the other NOVA Guest. My vote is Rockman... unless Yorkdale can beat him, 6mins, 3 periods... Alibi to the person who asked, "Who has Rockman and Yorkdale beaten that puts them in front of Ramey?" I would say, Ramey, a great wrestler, 2x 4A state champ (great accolades) hasn't beaten the caliber of wrestlers in VA or PA that "Rockman, Yorkdale", Clay Smith or Megonigal have beaten. Also, saw the film for the conf finals: Ramey(ranked) and Roche(unranked). Ramey won 3-1. That's a close match. Roche, young stud, tough, up and coming not in the top 10 "yet"... Every kid mentioned in my comments is a Stud!!! *Sean, thanks for the rankings... // GP
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Post by Mat fan on Feb 10, 2015 17:24:11 GMT -5
Sakalas, 160, beat Battista at the Skyline Fall Qualifier 5-0.
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Post by nwwrestler07 on Feb 10, 2015 21:33:52 GMT -5
I am aware that Robinson and Westfield compete out of area often. You have basically stated the two have won matches out of area that warrant them ranking over Ramey. I say that's great, who? I am not asking for Megonigal.. I agree he is better than Ramey, I am asking for Yorkdale and Rockman. I saw Rockman went 0-2 at ETR..
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Post by nwwrestler07 on Feb 10, 2015 21:52:21 GMT -5
Actually, if you want to get really technical about it;
Michael Hulcher of Briarwoods over Yorkdale, who is apparently equal with Rockman, at least twice in his career that I can think of, Yorkdale none over him. Hunter Starner over Hulcher at Beast of the East and in college Ramey over Starner in state finals
To me, you can't leap over the 2 by beating a bunch of 5's and 6's, but apparently the ranker here chose to do that. That, or he feels Ramey sat on his bum and did nothing this previous offseason, to allow these kids to pass him. I mean, the only point brought up that could be an argument is that Roche gave him a 3-1 match.. except I don't believe using one score from an in conference opponent who you wrestle over and over and over should be used as a score to base a ranking on. As long as he wins, it's all good. Just my thoughts anyways.
**** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
I appreciate your point, but yes, Rockman and Yorkdale beating a bunch of 5's and 6's cannot go ignored. In addition, as for a common opponent, Yorkdale beat Roche 11-2.
While there is no doubt Ramey is a great wrestler, I just don't have the evidence this year to place him over some of these kids with big wins in 2014-15.
Thank you, Admin
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Post by NOVAGuest on Feb 11, 2015 10:45:35 GMT -5
Parsons - No nerve struck, just trying to add context to your statement where you had omitted historical detail. In the 5 matches between Rockman and Yorkdale Rockman has won 3, 2014 Conf 5 finals 5-4; 2014 Region finals 3-2; 2014 Dual by Fall. Yorkdale has won 2 2014 Conf dual 16-4 and Injury default wile leading 5-1. Again supports my point they are closely matched and it should make for an exciting 6A North Region. If it is that important for you to have Rockman ranked ahead of Yorkdale on the forum go ahead, not a big deal. The forum is supposed to be for enjoyment of the fans and certainly is nothing more than a fantastic attempt by a dedicated individual to bring some subjective sanity to the imperfect system that is VHSL wrestling.
NWwrestler07 - Hulcher over Yorkdale was against Ryan Yorkdale not Justin Yorkdale. They are twins but wrestle different weight classes. Ryan Yorkdale has never wrestled Mason Rockman in an official match and Justin Yorkdale has never wrestled Michael Hulcher or Hunter Starner in an official match.
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Post by VA Nova Fan on Feb 11, 2015 11:03:09 GMT -5
120 Weight - Freshman - Ron Miller is neck and neck with Bowen Will be an Exciting Regional Final in 5A 132 Zahora -Deserves a mention he might have only lost 1 time all year 138 Bill Adusi - Find it hard to put anyone above him 152 Garrett Moody has been at 170 pounds all year 160 Garrett Griffith beat Michael Batista 3 times(Conf, Nova Classic, Loudoun County Tournament) and Beat Alex Miller at Willie Walters 170 John Borst Pinned Jake David at Conf Finals Ice beat Parsons 182 Very tough Weight class at 6A Overall looks good
**** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
I will take a look. Thanks for the feedback and results!
Thank you, Admin
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Post by VA Nova Fan on Feb 11, 2015 19:32:49 GMT -5
Here is my 2 cents 120 - Ron Miller deserves a mention. Neck and Neck with Bowen - Should be a great Region 5A Final 132 - Zahora deserves a mention 1 at 40-1 138 - Bill Adusi - Hard time having anyone ahead of him. 152 - Garrett Moody has been at 170 all year 160 - Garrett Griffith Beat Michael Batista at Loudoun county Championship and Conf and Alex Miller at Willie Walters 170 - Borst Pinned David in Conf Final, Ice Beat Parsons in Conf Final
**** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
120 - Noted. 132 - Zahora is on my Watch list. 138 - Tough class, not sure, but I certainly get your point. 152 - Noted. Thanks! 160 - Noted and swapped. 170 - Noted and swapped.
Thank you, Admin
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Post by Wrestling Fan on Feb 11, 2015 22:12:03 GMT -5
Ice did not beat Parsons. He dint not wrestle in the finals due to injury.
**** Noted, adjusted, appreciated.****
Good call. I got lazy and did not verify.
I am swapping back and updating after regionals. Thank you.
Thank you, Admin
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Post by 132 on Feb 12, 2015 12:34:34 GMT -5
well said Admin. Smith has 8 losses to PA/NJ opponents this season and 3 to VA kids (2x to Rockman, Yorkdale, & Evans). Note: He just beat Evans last week in the Conf finals. Similar Freshman season last year...lost 16 or more matches but the majority were out of VA. Finished 5th at 132. This said as an example for heavily weighting strength of schedule.
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